Monday, November 12, 2007

Thoughts on why "Chinese People Suck Again"

I was browsing through the blogger tools and came across one of my posts from April 2006 that had a whopping 11 comments. Turns out some people commented a month after I posted it, and another person commented just last month. Quite a surprise. I need to read those notification emails more carefully!

Here is the entry.

The reason it received these late comments is the touchy and direct title, "Chinese People Suck Again". I found it interesting because it seemed like the readers thought that I was not Chinese (despite me saying "my people" in the last line of the original post). Some boneheaded reader proclaimed that I was racist. That's quite intriguing to me because for the first time I'm pondering whether its possible for me to be racist against my own people. It was interesting to see people dismiss this as being a racist post, and assume that I was not Chinese. They then felt compelled to "educate" me as if I were an ignorant foreigner, butchering the Chinese way of life. Anyways, I'm going to respond to those comments here:



LOL, this guy's a winner. However, I must thank him/her for introducing the notion that I may be prejudice towards my own people.



I don't understand. Show some respect for whom? The family that bought a ton of souvenirs and attempted to take over my storage space? The two girls who violated airline rules to be the first to exit the plane? The people dumb enough to not be able to form a line? "These people live like that". Well, I was born and raised in Hong Kong, and let's just say that I have a little higher expectations for my fellow HKers. I certainly don't believe that this type of behavior is our "way of live". I was "bragging"? How so? Also, I fail to understand the analogy of people laughing at someone who walked barefoot. If you want my respect, please earn it.


I'm glad this guy agrees with me "portionally"(sic), but pulling out the "atrocities" card is a bit much. It has absolutely (and I don't use this word often) nothing to do with my post, except for the fact that there were both Japanese people and Chinese people involved (like WWII did). If this guy's excuse for Chinese impoliteness is WWII, then I have nothing else to say. There is no relation, and it makes no sense. We all know that Japanese people aren't perfect, but for the most part, they respect people, they respect cleanliness, and they respect their land. A majority of Chinese people have trouble doing that.


Finally, someone with a more civilized comment. He or she is Chinese, and that's fine and dandy and so am I. I'm going to assume this person was trying to say that because Hong Kong is overcrowded, so we should excuse them for pushing and shoving and not respecting the space of one another. As a Chinese person, I cannot accept that, nor can I respect people for acting this way. I also think that our friend, modo, has the wrong idea. I'm not asking people to say please or thank you or make small talk. I'm asking them to simply show some respect. If you want that job, you run instead of walk, but you don't break the rules. If you don't want to "lose a meal", wake up earlier, but don't cut in line.

I don't buy the idea that China is an "impolite country'. China is perhaps the oldest civilization in the world. I don't accept that they are so behind other developed nations in terms of politeness. China has such a rich cultural history, it is inconceivable that they missed the session on "how to be polite".

Here's the thing: being truly polite and respectful comes from the heart. Right now, most Chinese people are polite only when money is involved. If Chinese people want the world (or even their own people) to respect them, they have to adopt a positive mentality, not just play the role.

10 comments:

Miss.E. said...

hmm. To each their own. Perhaps being polite/kind is not really valued, vs. getting ahead, simply, for chinese society, at the moment. I say that because Singapore and HK for e.g., took decades to evolve to a level of politeness/civility, if you will. Not so long ago, you'd have found the same queue-cutting, pushing/shoving/rudeness here too.

On a recent trip to Shanghai, I ran out of coins (the MTR with exact change is a killer).. and guess what? A nice Shanghainese guy topped up the difference for me.

So, give China time. Societies evolve. But it will not help if debates descend into "I'm better than you" name-calling.

Justin said...

True, but sadly, the original post wasn't even about Mainlanders. It was about modern day HKers.

People were fighting and breaking the "rules" to get more or get ahead for absolutely no good reason.

Miss.E. said...

"get more or get ahead"

that's the reason, ain't it?... it may not be something you/me would set much store by, but people are hungry for different things. =)

Justin said...

I don't know... storage space you don't really need, being the first one to get out of the plane (not even, cause economy class goes after business anyways)?

I think you'd be surprised (or not) at how many HKers line up for the sake of lining up, not even knowing what they're lining up for, or being the "first" for the sake of being first. When they eventually find out what they "get", they become disappointed.

Bad manners has simply become a bad habit, and not a means to an end.

Miss.E. said...

insecurities...it is not so much about winning vs about not being the last sometimes? You can tell a lot (ok some things) about a person when you observe how they behave, when they do NOT have to be nice.

hahaha maybe they try to sneak past the curtains into Business to exit first (while trying to hide the pillow, blanket and glasses with the Cathay logo)? =D

Justin said...

You can tell a lot, especially how much people value courtesy and respect.

Being last for what? A little bit of logic would tell these people that they stand to lose nothing for being the last to exit the aircraft.

Sure, its about being first/not being last, but when you sacrifice basic civility for that, it ain't right. If you're a caveman fighting for food, then fine. But we're not.

John said...

I remember when I was in HK I stood up for an old guy and gave him my seat on the KCR train. He looked at me as if I had just turned water into bread. Is politeness that far and few between?

Yes a random example but I think it highlights the "go go go" attitude that Hong Kong and China has. Japan is as packed if not more, as Hong Kong yet you don't get the pushy-shovy thing going on on the streets like you get on the streets of Mong Kok or Causeway Bay. God help me the Sunday that I was dumb enough to go down to Mong Kok...

But it's the same everywhere I guess. Maybe the orderliness of Japan is the minority and everyone else is in the majority. Sydney ain't much better in that regards.

When our school hosted a Chinese study group, the general poor behaviour of the few reduced one of the teachers to tell their parents in Chinese "You're children are embarrassing China". That whipped them into shape.

I'm rambling but for me, it's embarrassing and frustrating to see the minority ruin the hardwork done by everyone else. That I guess is common for everthing regardless of culture.

Unknown said...

Interesting topic, so here goes my two cents; let's isolate the argument on Hong Kong Chinese because it's really not fair to drag mainland into this debate because of the political and social difference. And Hong Kong is much more westernized.
There is a saying in Cantonese basically translate into this " losing leading position is worse than bankruptcy
I am not sure where this saying come from but it seems like everyone takes this saying to the letter.
Have you noticed that most of hkers are impatient? They want things done fast and sometimes cutting some corners to get things done faster is commonly accepted among our culture (Hong Kong culture that is).
What I’m trying to say is that I believe most of the people that cutting the line is because they don’t want waste time waiting in line (even though the outcome might just be the opposite); common manner and respect to others become secondary.
Civility is an interesting word, it depends on what civilization we are talking about.
And in Hong Kong civility is efficiency and making a buck; the second purist capitalistic place I have ever seen (next to nyc of course, actually now I think of it there are alots of resemblance btw New Yorker and hker’s behaviors)
I am not defending hkers behaviors; I am simply trying to rationalized it.

Justin said...

Re: john

Its pretty depressing to see Hong Kong people (a majority), instead of giving up seats for the elderly and the needy, they find "methods" to grab a seat on the subway. One of those "methods" was watching for people who lean forward. If someone leans forward, he or she might be about to get off the train, meaning a potential empty seat.

If I'm sitting down, I have this habit of scouting for elderly people to give my seat to. Like you said though, they're not all that enthusiastic to take the seat offered.

Re: joe

You're right about not draggint he Mainland into this. My original post was about HK people on a flight. To add to that, these were relatively well off people coming home from a vacation to Japan. Certainly not Mainlanders or the equivilant.

For modern, somewhat educated people, I think there has to be a line drawn. You can be aggresive, you can want to get ahead, but when you cut in line, or when you cheat, you're crossing that line. Hong Kong have gotten into the poor, lazy habit of breaking the rules for even the smallest, most insignificant advantage. Sure, HKers cut corners here and there, but smart HKers should be able to think, rationalize, and determine when its worth it to break the rules. The problem now is that they don't think. They just do.

Re: All

There's this book that came out in 2004 called 狼圖騰 or Wolf Totem by Chen Zhen. It is about wolves in Mongolia during the cultural revolution. It is about the desertification of Mongolia due to the cultural revolution. It is also a critique of the current Chinese "me first" selfish mentality, comparing it to the selfless wolf packs and their behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Totem

Miss.E. said...

* apologies for my first post that caused that confusion on HK / China (yes, I need to read more carefully).

to move the discussion along; (because in Singapore, it is sometimes rather the same - folks will NEVER move into the centre of a train for e.g, or will be charging out a plane)...

What could be done to change such behaviour, or is it a lost case and these negative traits - not wanting to lose (in singaporean speak: kiasu) / as joseph has it "cutting corners" - is just ingrained in chinese culture.??